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then the next thing they know they're

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just driving down the road to wherever

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they were going

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and it was the first time he'd even

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mention it since it happened but he

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mentioned it to me like 20 years later

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and he said I don't know why we didn't

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even talk about it it was just something

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that so you know what's going on here

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um you know it's it's the phenomenon I

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either imposing some type of cloud of

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you know uh cloudiness over our our

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fogginess over our minds or maybe

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instructing us not to do that not to

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discuss it not to discuss it openly or

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putting it off until long after the

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event has occurred

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uh you know once again it's it's not a

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uh a trusted interlocutor

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by any stretch of the imagination so

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let me give you an example you know I I

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mentioned this before another podcast I

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was visited once by a quote-unquote

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messenger being you know and it was a

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little

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hooded figures that came into my bedroom

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this is probably not a lot longer than

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five or six years ago seven years ago

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and it was the only other appearance and

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he came in and looking at each other and

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make a long story short it just

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disappears I'm wide awake you know not

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the least bit afraid and my response

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wasn't wake up my wife you wouldn't

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believe what the hell just came into the

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bedroom again

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it was

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you know it went bad about the covers up

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next morning got up you know and it was

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a messenger and I found out my friend

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died and it's probably that's what it

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was about I'm sure but I remember

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thinking I better call up so-and-so you

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know the head of this uh he was ahead of

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this um he was a doctor ahead of head of

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this program that my wife and I were

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involved in and still are about people

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that have had these inexperiences

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and uh and he said well you know you

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should try to re-contact it was clearly

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a contact

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you should go back in contact and I said

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I'm not contacting that and I want to

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contact that I want anything to do with

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that damn thing you know I don't know

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what the hell it was I don't want it in

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my life I didn't want to open up any

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kind of pathway with that uh and I know

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a lot of people tell me ah you know you

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know you know this was these are

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invitations you should be taking these

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and I'm saying well easy for you to say

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if I knew what the hell it was if it

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introduced itself and say hey how are

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you my name is you know I still would be

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skeptical highly skeptical of it but

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nevertheless it doesn't give you that

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opportunity does it it it it it it just

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walls itself off and most experiences

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are like that it doesn't allow this this

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back and forth you know they said well

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I'll come back in three years it'll pick

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you up and you have these those are

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contact experiences

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but can you actually trust those

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experiences that they are actually what

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they are I'd be very doubtful that that